Skyrim talk:Conjuration

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Archive 1: Oct 2011 - Feb 2012

Conjure/Banish Loop

If you have enough magicka or cost reducing equipment for Conjuration can you level the skill by conjuring a Flame Atronach and using Banish on it immediately following? Seems like if you have 0 cost Conjuration equipment that would be almost as easy as the other methods described for leveling Conjuration. 159.182.1.4 18:29, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, you can. However, even with the stronger Expel Daedra, your skill will increase very slowly, much slower than using Bound Sword or Soul Trap method.117.5.241.137 11:59, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

With this 0 cost trick, invocating dremora every second near a weak ennemy is very fast too. It seems invocating something is useless unless there's an ennemy nearby. — Unsigned comment by 195.132.147.25 (talk) at 23:46 on 5 May 2012

Hostility

Raised zombies have a habit of turning hostile on me. Is this a bug, or is this a function of skill level versus target? — Unsigned comment by 67.164.190.105 (talk) on 2 March 2012

Even Easier way to level Conjuration

Since I'm not a mage-type, I still wanted to level conjuration to 90 to get the sigil stone quest. Anyway, if you complete the quest to get the staff of magnus, you should get the morokei mask as well. Don't remove it from your inventory when you go to face Ancano. After killing him, get your arch-mage robes. Before leaving the room, put on the morokei mask, the arch-mage robes, and the Gauldur amulet fragment (if it is still in your inventory; if not, use something that either increases magicka or conjuration). Then, drag Ancano near the magicka fonts, and start casting soul-trap. It will take a bit of time, but its way faster than any method I've ever seen recommended. — Unsigned comment by 69.255.145.146 (talk) on 6 March 2012

Is playing skyrim all about taking the "easy" route? This is an exploit, and I think it should be removed from the conjuration page and perhaps relegated to the forum. Exploits are cheats, pure-and-simple. The greater satisfaction for this player is playing it as it was intended. 108.233.128.200 13:38, 23 November 2013 (GMT)

Some people want to know how to level certain skills quickly, so we list some on each skill's page. We don't judge how anyone chooses to play Skyrim, we just try to provide as much information as possible for players of all styles. --Xyzzy ^Talk 13:46, 23 November 2013 (GMT)

Thrall Atronachs vs. Base Summoned Atronachs.

Other than one being on a time and the other being indefinite, is there any statistacle difference between Thralls and the generic 'Conjured' Atronachs? Zsword 07:20, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

No, the only difference is that their duration is indefinite.--DagmarH 02:15, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

According to the Daedra page, atronach Thralls have what seems to be a low-level constant heal effect; I assume that Dead Thralls have something similar. 203.206.108.53 04:59, 2 November 2012 (GMT)

There is a difference, furthermore a considerable difference. Here you can see the stats on the Thralls(fire/frost/storm): [[1]] . They are different from the Atronachs, they are stronger. Thralls also have normal and pontent versions. Here are the stats of the Atronachs:[[2]] and [[3]] and [[4]] As you can see the difference is the highest in case of the Flame Atronach / Trall. I also theseted all the 3 in the game, I summoned a Thrall and an Atronach, then started to destroy them with destruction spells. Thralls took more shots.

Raise Zombie Bug

Just wondering if this may be a new possible bug from latest patch (xbox 360). With my level 1 dunmer character i used raise zombie spell for 1st time and my skill immediately jumped from base 15 to 18... 3 whole points after encountering one enemy bandit. Is this a bug? Should my conjuration jump up that high by using a spell once?— Unsigned comment by 108.29.105.37 (talk) on 15 April 2012

-Low level skills do level up REALLY fast, and raise zombie is a fairly advanced spell for 15, so getting 3 skill ups from a single casting isn't completely inplausible. I know I got fairly consistant level per flame atronach in the 20s of conjuration. Zsword 04:12, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Familiar

Is Familiar an atronach or undead? I will have conjuration as my main skill, but I favor the familiar for now. There is perks for undead and atronachs, which ones will I use to improve my familiar? — Unsigned comment by 80.202.83.251 (talk) at 17:10 on 12 May 2012

It's considered to be a generic Daedra, so I don't believe it responds to any Conjuration benefits at all. – Robin Hood↝talk 20:56, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Dawnstar Sanctuary Level Up

In the Dawnstar Sanctuary after you've completed the entire Dark Brotherhood story line, or you unlock it and are able to upgrade, you could exploit the torture victims in the torture room by casting the dual casted Soul Trap to get the same affect as casting it on a dead corpse, they can't get away, and if the corpse exploit is somehow fixed in the next few patches, then these could be reasonable replacements since they're still living. — Unsigned comment by 108.86.32.75 (talk) on 18 May 2012 Another thing you can do to the tortcher victims is beat them nearly to death but not kill them and all four will give you a location for hidden treasure(about 1000 gold each)

Additional Location

The Conjure Flame Atronach spellbook can also be found west of Stendarr's Beacon in a burned-out house which apparently hosted a mishap nigh identical to Yisra's unfortunate episode. 76.185.41.201 08:00, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

D'oh: Proper Looking has determined that this is just a Scroll, and not the spellbook. 76.185.41.201 22:11, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Should the page include Spectral Arrows?

Which is this Wiki about, the game or the file that the game inhabits? If a spell, item, etc. is unavailable in the game on the PC or any platform then why include it even if it is findable with the Creation Kit or some file reader or bot. Are unimplemented things merely abandoned-in-place trash that the developer forgot to take out, or are they part of the game as such? Should we be rummaging through the trash to create a list of things that may have crossed the minds of the developers that are not in the game (which list is potentially very large indeed.) I ask only because if Spectral Arrows are not in the game why should they be in this Wiki? Kalevala 17:27, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Because even though it is not available in game currently, it is still in the game data, and has the potential for PC players and modders to access it through processes such as console commands. There is also the slim possibility that the developers will eventually include access to such content in future updates through some means. But back to the original point, just because the average player will never see or access the content, doesn't mean it isn't there. It's included on this wiki because some people will be interested in finding ways to access it, or will simply be curious about some bit of extraneous data. Saying it's trash data because most people will never notice its existence is like saying certain rare items, quests, or NPCs are trash data because most players will never come across them without seeing the information on this wiki first..... ---Gamer3427 19:42, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

The last person to reply gave a long winded answer, in short if it has an ingame code that is accessible via console commands it is and should be here /end. - Killerchronic (talk) 02:20, 16 May 2013 (GMT)

However i will continue, just because its not accessible via the main game does not exclude the fact that it is in game. Expansions and DLC are big parts of this series. Modders having access to things in game without having to create them also creates big opportunities, something Bethesda knows well as it makes it very very easy to add mods to the game and supports the modding community as a whole by releasing the creation kits. This wiki is a collection of ALL things within the Elder Scrolls universe and every single game made. To start excluding things becomes stupid. The info about it being there does not hurt you at all. You are here for a reason and that is to learn something, be it how to do a quest or whatever. Should a separate wiki be made that includes things that are in the game but not yet implemented? So then we need another address and site and server and more admins, moderators and general wiki experts to track changes. No, all in one place is very obviously the best way to do it and if the information contained does not pertain to you, ignore it. Otherwise we will have many saying we should have a PC, XBOX and PS3 variation of the site because of bugs that exist in one and not the other, or the fact console commands cannot be used on a console. - Killerchronic (talk) 02:18, 16 May 2013 (GMT)

bound sword soultrap mechanic

what is the duration of the trap? — Unsigned comment by 24.38.235.96 (talk) at 17:20 on 7 July 2012

According to the Conjuration skill page, with the Soul Stealer perk, Bound Weapons cast Soul Trap on enemies, which lasts 60 seconds. --Psylocke 17:35, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Definitely not 60 seconds. I believe it's closer to 2-5 seconds. It does not cast the "Soul Trap" spell, merely the "Soul Trap" effect. I also notice that the effect is cast after the damage is dealt, as i frequently one-shot wolves with the Mystic Sword and don't get souls, even though i have plenty of empty soul gems. VycDarkshadow (talk) 20:59, 19 January 2014 (GMT)

Yeah, in the CK, it's clearly 5 seconds. It's interesting (and annoying) that the damage comes before the effect is applied. I'll play around with that a bit tonight, and see if that's a fixable issue or not. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 03:58, 20 January 2014 (GMT)

Actually, scratch that. I think the USKP has already addressed this: "Soul Trap animations would not play for bound weapons after obtaining the Soul Stealer perk (PerkSoulStealerFFContact) due to the perk not having the effect script attached. (Bug #901)" I'm not sure if it's exactly what you're describing or not, but I suspect so. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 04:01, 20 January 2014 (GMT)

Summoning failure

I was using Summon Familiar to attack some mudcrabs and level up my Conjuration (which I did, from level 20 to 25), and then killing the familiar with fire, if it survived the mudcrab, to improve my Destruction. On several occasions (in one case, about 7 or 8 consecutive castings) the summoning spell failed to work, although each cast used mana and also improved my skill, as I continued to gain levels in Conjuration. I'd hear the "clonk" from the spell, but no familiar would appear. Eventually a familiar would summon correctly. Examining "Active Effects" while summoning was failing showed that the Summon Familiar spell was active. Once I resumed summoning after that, everything worked normally. This may be a one-off, but I thought I'd mention it to see if anyone else has encountered a similar problem. Peterguard (talk) 09:01, 13 October 2012 (GMT)

Do you have any spell absorption effects active? They will absorb your conjuration spells sometimes. RIM (talk) 09:52, 13 October 2012 (GMT)

I have experienced this bug countless of times and I can confirm that spell absorption is not the cause. This bug is really annoying as it wastes a lot of magicka for nothing.117.5.16.116 11:06, 15 January 2013 (GMT)

Soul Cairn Summons Affected by Perks?

Wrathmen, Bonemen and Mistmen, are they affected by any of the perks (other than summon from a distance). --78.148.29.232 15:20, 29 October 2012 (GMT)

Their duration is doubled by the Necromancy perk, but I think that's the only perk that affects them. — Unsigned comment by 97.97.190.53 (talk) at 21:23 on 1 February 2013

I think they get the bonus health from Dark Souls too, and obviously they're affected by Twin Souls as well. Their casting cost is also affected by the Apprentice, Adept or Expert perk (depending on which spell you're casting). They're not affected by Atromancy, and I don't think Elemental Potency affects them. Conjuration Dual Casting extends their duration as well. Obviously Mystic Binding, Soul Stealer and Oblivion Binding don't affect them. --Morrolan (talk) 04:14, 27 November 2013 (GMT)

Summoning infinite Atronach bug

When you cast a summon spell, an atronach appears, right? When you cast the spell again, the first atronach should disappear, replaced by the new one, right? Unless you have the twin souls perk, which allows for only TWO atronach, dremora lords, zombies, right?

Well, I've encountered a bug where I am able to summon as many atronachs as I want without overwriting the first one, and I've not reached the twin souls perk yet. So now I have 5 Flame atronach and 3 Frost atronachs causing chaos across the fields of Skyrim.

But I want a fix as this awesome bug diminishes the whole gaming experience :I — Unsigned comment by 210.195.112.64 (talk) at 10:27 on 4 November 2012‎

Kill them, you wont receive a bounty. Mikeyboy52 (talk) 17:30, 24 January 2013 (GMT)

Ash Guardian,

Shouldn't the notes about the Ash Guardians (bottom of the notes) be moved to Dragonborn:Spells page? Or move the spells over to their appropriate Skyrim pages as was done with Dawnguard? Mikeyboy52 (talk) 17:42, 24 January 2013 (GMT)

vampire lords + necromancy?

If I'm reading this right, vampire lords benefits from necromancy perk for ALL conjuration spells? http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&ordid=927766 Dawn (talk) 08:22, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

Yep that seems to be correct, All the Vampire Lord reanimation/summoning abilites should be getting affected by the conjuration perks. Should probably go into the notes on the Vampire Lord page. Lord Eydvar ^{Talk|Contribs} 08:27, 26 February 2013 (GMT)

The twin soul perk doesn't seem to work when one of the Dragonborn added summons are involved. Ash Spawn and Seeker, both could only be used stand alone. Even though I am sure the perk works with the other summons from the basic game. I tried two Ash Spawn, Two Seekers and One Ash Spawn or a Seeker with several other summons from the basic game. With one hand twice or with one summon from both hands each. Result was always just one of them. The second didn't show up.

Summons with Destruction Cloaks

Regarding:

"If you cast any of the damaging Cloak spells while you have a conjured creature active, the creature will be dismissed. The reverse is not true; if you conjure a creature while a Cloak is active, both spells remain in effect. When using Twin Souls perk then both summons are dismissed. With Elemental Potency perk all Elemental summons (Fire, Frost, Shock) are not affected by this issue (Dremora Lord is affected even with the perk)."

I've been playing as a mage (PS3, before and after having 1.9) and this has not happened to me once. I do not have the Elemental Potency perk and no atronachs have been dismissed as a result of casting either Fire/Frost/Shock cloaks. I tend to conjure an atronach first and then a cloak if a hostile gets too close - I'd have definitely noticed this happening. — Unsigned comment by 80.47.34.171 (talk) at 16:34 on 9 April 2013‎

~ Just stopping by to say that this has been happening to me... I'm playing as a mage (on PS3, no patches), and when I've summoned a flame atronach then cast flame cloak, my atronach vanishes. Took me a while to figure out that it was the cloak causing it, and not just the atronach being killed by an enemy or something, or not spawning properly, so I came online looking for more info and ended up here. It's definitely a thing. Maybe it just doesn't happen for everyone, or it was fixed by a patch I don't have...— Unsigned comment by 82.153.145.6 (talk) at 18:33 on 10 May 2013

Bound sword with Oblivion Binding + dead thrall dremora

Ok, so I was trying to level up my one-handed and am a lvl 100 conjurer at the same time, so I conjured two dremora (the ones from the shrine of Merthuse dagon (or something like that)) using the undead thrall spell, and I kept killing them with a normal ebony sword.

THen I switched to my Bound sword to see how it would work. What happened was my dremora ran away despite having his weapon out, and after I killed it and reanimated it again, it still runs away from all enemies that it encounters. Please help, I'm pretty sure that you are supposed to be able to get them to run from you if they are fighting YOU only, Instead they now run from everything that attacks.

If anyone has a bug fix, tell me — Unsigned comment by 198.244.58.68 (talk) at 08:58 on 4 May 2013

Soul Trapping a Corpse

Firstly i did not add this as you will garner. What is the case with this, there is nothing under bugs/notes or anything. The spell states must die within xx seconds. How does this work if its already dead? Soultrap must be cast while target is alive and having gone over every page i can think of including the discussion sections i cannot find a single thing that pertains to this idea that a corpse will work to soultrap. However i am off to try and replicate this, no magician though so my magicka is rather err low. - Killerchronic (talk) 02:08, 16 May 2013 (GMT)

Forgot to reply back to this, it does work on corpses. - Killerchronic (talk) 00:50, 7 June 2013 (GMT)

Familiars (and Mistmen)

Conjuration 'minions' seem to be separated into two groups - atronarchs: summoned, and undead: raised. How does that affect other summons (that are not atronarchs) and other undead (that are not raised)? Do the bonemen gain bonus from either tree, or both? If one, which? Does that familiar benefit from either at all? Karsciyin (talk) 04:03, 6 July 2013 (GMT)

As far as I can tell, 'atronach' seems to just be a term for summoned creatures; for instance, the Dremora Lord is not an atronach by name, and is still affected by all of the Atronach perks. As the bonemen/mistmen are summoned and not raised, I am fairly certain (but not 100%, only about 80%) the game's coding considers them both Atronachs for Conjuration abilities, and yet they are undead (although not raised), so Turn Undead and Banish should both work - but the perks to give raised undead extra health/time should not. I do not currently have a character to test this on; if you do have a Conjuration based character to test it, this is the way it should work - get the Atronach time perk and note the time remaining the instant you cast it - then do the same for the Necromancy one and another with both. If my theory is correct, they should have doubled time from the Atronach one and the original time for the Necromancy, with only doubled time with both. -ChaoticAscension (talk) 01:54, 4 August 2013 (GMT)

Bound weapons not capturing souls

I have Skyrim for the 360 and took the Soul Stealer perk, but none of my bound weapons seem to do this. Enemies I strike will glow like they have Soul Trap on them, but when they die, I don't fill a Soul Gem. I've tried using both Bound Sword and Bound Bow, and it doesn't work with either of them. I had the original version of the game and recently upgraded with Legendary for the add-on's, does anyone know what's up with it? Thanks in advance. -Nick — Unsigned comment by ‎ 173.161.17.49 (talk) at 12:11 on 30 December 2013

Hope you don't feel insulted by such a basic question, but are you sure you have an empty soul gem that is large enough for the creature you are soul-trapping? Are you getting a message saying that you don't have a soul gem capable of holding the soul? Are you getting the normal sound and visual effects that normally accompany soul trapping? --Xyzzy ^Talk 03:06, 31 December 2013 (GMT)

Nope, not insulted at all. I have several empty types of every soul gem from lesser to grand, and Azura's Star which remains empty. When I hit an enemy with Bound Sword or Bound Bow, I see the purple outline effect on them, but when they die I don't get the soul capture animation and they don't fill a gem. I've tried using it on Bandits, Mammoths, etc, and it doesn't seem to work for me. -Nick — Unsigned comment by 173.161.17.49 (talk) at 07:29 on 10 January 2014

Sounds like you may be experiencing a script error with the perk. You could try resetting your Conjuration perks, either in Apocrypha by expending a dragon soul, or making Conjuration legendary and raising your skill back up to 30 and retaking the perk. That may reinitialize the script and fix it. --Xyzzy ^Talk 07:34, 11 January 2014 (GMT)

Thanks for your help, I reset Conjuration by making it Legendary and I'll see if re-buying the perk fixes the issue. Otherwise it's not a huge deal using regular Soul Trap and my Enchanting is already 100, so I just use soul gems to make found loot more valuable before selling it off. Appreciate the insight! -Nick — Unsigned comment by 173.161.17.49 (talk) at 07:48 on 11 January 2014‎

Yeah, making a skill Legendary makes you lose all the perks you obtained for that skill. You'll have to relearn the perk to obtain the skill. VycDarkshadow (talk) 20:57, 19 January 2014 (GMT)

XP Per Spell

How was the XP per spell determined? I know that Bound Sword has a very high XP to Magicka ratio, but it seems like the thrall spells have a much higher ratio. I seem to remember using Conjuration as a legendary reset, and casting frost thrall could max Conjuration in a few casts, whereas spamming Bound Sword would increase Conjuration only a few levels. 72.66.107.212 06:10, 3 February 2014 (GMT)

The basic formula is the Skill Use Multiplier for the magic effect times the base cost of the spell. It's actually a bit more complex than that, since XP is actually calculated per effect, and there are other modifiers as well for some spells (some of which I never figured out), but that's the basic idea. So, using Frost Thrall as an example, it has a Skill Use Multiplier of 3.5, and a base cost of 1100. Multiply those together and you get 3850.

As far as casting Bound Sword vs. Frost Thrall, keep in mind that first of all, you have to cast 8.2 times as many Bound Swords as Frost Thralls, and there have to be enemies present to get any XP at all. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 06:24, 3 February 2014 (GMT)

I seem to remember casting Frost Thrall once earned way more XP than casting Bound Sword 9 times. I'll see if I can find an old save to verify.72.66.107.212 16:02, 3 February 2014 (GMT)

Thanks. I know there were some places where I couldn't figure out how things worked, exactly, so if you do find anything that doesn't match up, it'll be good to know so I can do some more investigation. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 18:27, 3 February 2014 (GMT)

I just ran a test and the figures in the chart do look correct. I did a Legendary reset of Conjuration and 8 casts of Bound Sword got me to level 26 in Conjuration. One cast of Frost Thrall got me to 26 as well. The ratios are pretty much accurate for these two for sure. - Joseph 72.66.107.212 23:54, 3 February 2014 (GMT)

Great! Thanks for doing the testing. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 00:09, 4 February 2014 (GMT)

I noticed the Conjure Undying Ghost spell is listed to give 0 XP... but that's definitely not the case. I've been using it heavily and it has level conjuration many times. I'm not sure how to test the precise value gained, and I wonder if it varies depending on the magicka spent on a particular casting of it. Olaus (talk) 08:15, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Dragonborn summons - moved from article

The Dragonborn spells Conjure Ash Spawn and Conjure Seeker ignore the Twin Souls perk when cast. However a standard summons or reanimate may be cast AFTER the Dragonborn spell and both creatures will remain in tact.

I'm not sure I understand what this note is saying. Does it mean that, if you have the Twin Souls perk, you summon a critter with a vanilla Skyrim spell, then cast one of these 2 spells, that the first will vanish, but if you cast the DB spell first, then you can cast a vanilla spell and both will stay? --Xyzzy ^Talk 21:01, 14 March 2014 (GMT)

Bound Bow Spell Tome location

I found another location for the Bound Bow Spell Tome. This location might be DG only as it doesn't become significant until Sorine sends you on a quest. But there is a chance that she'll send you to Broken Helm Hollow just outside of Riften and there is a chance that the spell tome will appear in the boss-level loot chest with a bunch of Dwemer loot. Can anyone confirm this or am I wasting my time talking about it here?

I did find the tome there so I know there's a chance of it appearing, but I don't know if that chance is significant enough to warrant listing on the wiki. 173.216.241.55 03:07, 30 August 2014 (GMT)

We only list confirmed copies, copies you are sure to get. I checked with the CK, and Broken Helm Hollow and its boss chest uses item lists and not guaranteed items, so we shouldn't list it. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 04:25, 30 August 2014 (GMT)

Summoner Perk

This perk states "Can summon atronachs or raise undead twice as far away." I have never noticed a distance limit to reanimating, is this even a thing? ~ Dwarfmp (talk) 05:11, 21 February 2018 (UTC)